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PODCAST | Cash generation is dead. Long live cash generation

Published by Patch on

Early this year, we thought cash generation would be impossible in 2020. How wrong we were.

Sure, Max Gawn, Lachie Neale and Matt motherflipping ROWELL scored 170+ this week, but Damo and Patch are on the quest to find out if those players are the ones we need to focus on… or if we need to go hunting for cold hard cash.

The lads discuss cheaper options to make cash, as well as more expensive options, and if they’re worth picking up over some of the cheaper selections on offer. 

How did you score in round two? What are your moves this week? And how many trades do you need to make the moves you want?

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just because the year is shorter, it is still going to be important to get the team value to over $13mil.

Normally the peak in team value comes around R15-16 and the last 6 or 7 rounds we lose value (check your own history).

more trades per round should also help with culling rookies and generating cash.

i was temped to get Naismith or Pittionet this week at R3, but i remember the rule regarding expensive rookies don't make as much cash as cheapies. Will get Sturt and Bennell instead.


I guess the advantage of starting Gawn and Grundy apart from the obvious is….if either one goes down, you can easily afford the next best Ruckman.
The obvious advantages of the big 2 are ,
maximum points every week
VC and C choice every week.
Not having to waste trades getting your Ruckline where it should already be.


Nice POD lads. Much appreciated


Great chat on the Pod lads Kudos. Agree on Pittonet issue. If he not onfield, yes has JS and will make $ however messy to have sitting R3. I have a dilemma that any advise from the community would be welcome.
I have most required rookies,except Harley, also have 387k in bank from Howe/Viney trades last week. So should i just end the NicNat experiment and go straight to Gawn (have Grundy) or fiddle with Pinnonet?

2ndly due to role change should i Trade Jelly for Neale.(or get Harley in)

Both sideways which scares me a bit.



I’d go Gawn if I was you, we talk ourselves into saving money every pre-season by cheaping out in a particular line and every season we end up paying up to get the big boys in, I love a bargain don’t get me wrong but the 2xG’s barring injury should be the first 2 picked and the rest of your team worked around it, you’ve now found yourself in the position of trying to get Gawn and now a fast starting Neale in which will hurt-I also have Jelly but I do have Gawn. Something for next season to think about from a SC perspective is to suck it up and keep the value picks to a bear minimum, fallen premo’s yeah ok but rarely does a midpricer pay off-Brayshaw, Long, Bewley, Houston, Mcluggage, MacPherson, all names that were bandied around preseason but have derailed coaches already, anyway that’s my 2c worth take from it what you will 👍


SC team is like a piece of string. When you pull on one end, the other end gets shorter.

When you spend big somewhere, you run out of cash elsewhere.

It’s all about value for money.

I had a rough formula where I would add $250k to a players price and then divide that by 7500 to show there true value in points.

700k would equal 127pts, $500k would equal 100ots, $123k would equal 50pts etc

A $10mil value (allowing for bench) will give a score, including C of about 2200.

I tried the usual way of just dividing by 5k, but found it was realistic.

Can a player out score their calculated true value?

At the end of the day it is about scoring as many points with limited dollars, value is the only way to do that, and this will in turn lead to price increases.

Having Grundy and Gawn would be great, but where does the shortfall go?

I never can pick the breakout players, but have had some success with midprice Fallen Premiums. Williams and BSmith last year, Docherty and DSmith so far this year.


I think anyone who picks a breakout player who is successful over the entire season and scores well, makes money Derek is just bloody lucky.
Seriously it's almost impossible…more the case is how many years to we pick guys who we think might do that and they fail to deliver and derail our season, it's almost better leaving it alone and hoping for a happy accident.


Too hard. I haven’t picked one yet

Had success with fallen premiums Or out of position players


Spot on. I picked Membrey after watching the beautiful delivery he was getting from Hill in the pre season, and knowing how strong a mark he is and beautiful kick for goal. I was sure he was going to go huge this year. I hope that comes true, but lost 100+ points in the 1st 2 rounds and now a trade.


That’s a great formula Derek very interesting, I may depending on your patent laws use it next season! As for the breakouts, I generally stick with the fallen premos or change of position players, this season Doch, Smith and Howe have been great for me and pretty much everyone else as well, I took a punt on Long as my change of position player-jury is still out on that one as with Ceglar, as mentioned I suppose my shorter piece of string has been the midfield with Jelly, Titch, Danger and Bont all failing to fire, where as a Neale, Fyfe, Cripps +1 of the above say Titch would of had me flying, but of course the string was fairly short by then.


I'm not sure Ceglar will hold his place in the team. Big Boy is a better ruck. Lewis will need to come in soon, hawks will give Patton every chance, Gunston can't be dropped and O'Brien is starting to show some form finally.


Same question. NicNat hasnt worked. So straight to Gawn or Goldy? Or Pittonet or Moore for some cash first.


Jump on Goldy mate Gawn was almost matched by a bloke playing his 7th game in 5-years and he was playing for the worst team in afl history. Pittonets previous high score was 75 and Max let him rack up 134 and almost halve the hitouts. If Pittonet had some decent hard midfielders to feed he would have matched or bettered Gawns score.
Max's 93 against WC is probably a truer indication.
Goldy is 60k cheaper than max and he's topping every stat for rucks and spending all game on ground and he's also played against 2 genuine afl rucks unlike maxxy who got a wounded eagle and a wannabe


Troll marc is now mick?


Doesn't matter Kym, Mick's entitled to an opinion as long as he's not being abusive or offensive, hey if ya hate a certain Team then who are we to stop anyone expressing it? Trolling is being juvenile and taking cheap offensive potshots at people, I don't think Mick's doing that.


I finished last year with Goldy. He bloody bloody good.


Some never learn. No Gawn no win. Pure and simple.


I’ve gone ROB instead of Gawn. So far it’s going ok. The extra 200k meant an extra mid (Coniglio) instead of a rookie on field. At some point I might look to upgrade.


You'll never win because you'll never learn that those who live in the past and are doomed to repeat their failures. Bet you wish you Goldy now


Not to debunk anyone's opinions but I would go straight to Gawn, Goldy is good but he's 3rd best and getting on a bit now.
Those like me that didn't start with the big 2 now have to find the moolah to get him, and that means probably making trades you probably wouldn't have wanted to do at the start, so Gator was right, start the 2 best Rucks and build your team around that.
We always think it'll offset if we don't do that, and get a few extra dudes in on other lines but that all falls in a heap as soon as Jacobs gets 56 and Gawn gets 170 LOL


If I apply my value formula to both their averages, they are both exactly 6 pts ahead of value for the first two rounds.


Probably the way to go John, I started with Jacobs so am pushing it uphill now, could have to burn 2 or 3 trades to get Gawn in now.


Your right Rusty, the 2xG’s from the get go is the way to go in the rucks you really just have to compromise in the remaining lines, I started both but now find myself needing to jump on Neale before he gets impossible to bring in-starting Jelly, Danger, Bont and to a lesser degree Titch was my compromise and they’ve failed to deliver, luckily I’ve had the C on Grundy and Gawn in successive rounds to keep me in the hunt.

Mitch is Back

That's a tough line.

Not too many would have considered starting JKelly, Danger, and Bont as a compromise, and Mitchell was thought to have been slightly underpriced at his best.

Suspect that the mids mentioned just haven't fired, and could easily have been scoring as well as Neale, the true compromises are likely elsewhere.

Johnny B Goodes

Hola community,

Thoughts on these trade:

Noble > Ridley
Roberton > Sturt (via some creative accounting)


Noble could increase by 20-30k this week don't you have a worse defender than him? Ridley is worth a shot though particularly when he's against the 2nd worst fwd line in the comp this week.


Annoyed i didnt bring sturt in last week while we had 5 trades. Now ive got 3 rookies to bring in with only 2 trades to use. Quietly hoping Sturt is out another week but the fact he isnt even on the freo injury list is not a good sign! Got BZT, Green and Cavarra/Davis to get rid of. Also got the likes of Laird in which Laird to Howe looks mighty tantalizing, especially being a pies fan.
Which 2 would you prioritise bringing in out of Howe, Sturt, RIvers and Bennell?


Howe and Rivers.
Sturt wont kick 3 goals every week and Bennell will probably breakdown soon or be limited to 50% tog all year, unless Melb make finals(hahahahahahaha). Also plenty of fwd rookies
Rivers is ok for bench cover and if you get a good mid/def he can cover two lines.
Howe is the only one of them that is worth putting on field. Bennell and Rivers wont be playing against the worst team in afl history every week and both might struggle to ave 50 against genuine afl opponents


I thought the same, just after the Free game had started.

Sturt is too much cash generation to ignore

Rivers looks a good player. Has DPP and is only $117k

Howe is going good, -9 BE so it’s now or never

Bennell will be managed and I’d be scared to ever put him on my field


Naismith not playing this week


Happy I got rid of him for Gawn then.


Is Howe going to continue this points form??
Is he likely to get shifted in position and restrict his points?


Howe will score good until he is required to do a lockdown roll. If the Pies lose one of their tall defenders.


Great podcast guys! For me its all about fixing my rucks this week. I punted English for Grundy last week which was priceless. This week Nic Nat has to go. Will punt Doedee who scored 39 SC and who will now make stuff all cash in the coming weeks anyway. Then punt Nic Nat I can afford Harley Bennell but wont have enough to get Max Gawn. However, I do have enough coin to to get Todd Goldstein. Goldy is sitting at the top of the ruck heap at the moment with a total of 300 SC scored. (Grundy 294 and Gawn 277) So Todd Goldstein it is! Groldy has a good ring about it. Set and forget in the rucks for now. If Goldy drops off then the switch to Gawn later should be relatively easy now. I will pass on Pittonet as I have plenty of cash making rooks. Cheers, TH


Gday Hawk, sounds like great trades to me. Loving what I’ve seen from Goldy so can’t fault the pick mate. Bennell should only improve his score the more his minutes go up. I’ve got a few stains I want to clean up (Houston, Jacobs, Long), but I think this is an important week to sure up rookies for cash gen purposes. In my eyes it’s more essential to grab D. Cameron, Sturt and Bennell than it is to trade these other options. I still kind of have hope that Long and Houston can improve, Jacobs holding the place until the funds can be made for Big Maxy


Jacobs has English this week, he will do ok


I agree TBone. Cash generation is crucial. I already have Rivers, Starcevich, Pickett, Budarick, Mc Inerney, Taylor, Sturt, Georgiades(Hope he can force his way back into the side) and getting Bennell this week. I will pass on Cameron to get Goldy as I think my rookie stocks are decent. Let’s sit back and wait for teams to drop! Cheers. TH


Hello Everyone,
Scored a decent 2313 last week and stoked with that! I am thinking of offloading Laird and Long this week to, either SPS & Rozee Or Howe & Simpkin.
Thoughts appreciated,


Nice score there, Vin. I went Laird to Howe last week and think he's still good value this week. I'm also toying with the idea of bringing Simpkin into my team.


Thanks Choppers! What do you think of SPS & Rozee? I reckon Rozee will have a breakout year the way he's going and will be more bang for buck than say a Simpkin. Agree with Howe though, he will be better than SPS.


What does Ports midfield look like with Wines back.

Does Rozee or Ebert get bumped out?


Probably not. Wines might not even get a run. There was a notion going around, he wasn't in their best 22 for Rd2, before he did the interview. Don't know if there's any truth to that tbh.


Wines will be back, might have to earn his place

Might be Houston gets bumped


Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on what to do with under-performing mid-pricers. I brought in both Doedee & Bewley who both flopped. I'm leaning to hold as I knew the risks of gambling on Mid-pricers to spike some cash gen (the equiavelent of a $20 shot at Flemington in the spring)

Thoughts community?


I have both as well and will hold this week but both are on notice.


Houston to Luke Ryan or to Petrecca via dpp? Cash I save by going to petrecca is swaying me that way but unsure if he will be top 8, ryan seems the safer choice


Pettracca plays in the guts where the big SC points are.

Freo have Wilson to come back May affect Ryan


I went Houston to Petracca this week, just think the short quarters suit him and he’s looking a lot fitter this year.


Ranked 2139 with 322k in the bank. Have been very lucky and have all the good rookies. Started with Neale Coniglio and Fyfe. Traded Bont out last week for Howe and bought in Sturt and Taylor and Bennell
Can go NicNat up to Gawn/Goldie.
Have gone NicNat to Pittonet and R3 loophole to Darcy Cameron.
Not touching Starcevich. Will give Houston one more week before trading to a keeper.


I was expecting NicNat to have a big score last week when Allen was named as the backup. Thinking NicNat might have more TOG.

It was still only 67%

Time for him to go if he isn’t going play any more than that.

Has a 73 BE not any cash to make


Dusty out throws a massive spanner in the works with my trades. With a zero currently in the fwd line Cavarra – Sturt is a no brainer if named. What should i prioritize with my second trade?

1. Green – Rivers/Bennell
2. Laird – Howe


Is Laird going to be a top 6 defender for the year? If you think he is, with almost unlimited trades for the season, then are you going to make enough by trading him out and back in later on? (but you also need to consider how much Howe will increase in value before you actually get him)

I’m holding tight on him, he might not be the sc player he once was, but my guess is he’ll still be pretty close to the top 6 by seasons end.

Therefore, option 1 for me.


Dusty out is very annoying. First game, can't even use him as a loophole for a rookie.

i guess, most people have him.

Jorg Ancrath

Bailey Smith? Love the mullet. Possible breakout?


He should score well until Libba comes in.


agree. libba will play in the guts


My son convinced me to trade Tom Lynch to Dusty, last weekend. Do you think he deserves pocket money this week?


I'd give him points for strategy, how to sabotage Dad's team so he can win strategy lol

Mitch is Back

Dusty out, presents an opportunity to trade him to Neale.

Appreciate your thoughts on this trade, probably only chance to get Neale in, and whilst Dusty will probably be top 6 forward at the end of the year, i'll probably be able to get him back later in the season.


Sounds like a fair point Mitch, with neale going up another 35 k or so he becomes the most expensive player in the game, may as well get him now. Dusty can be up and down anyway, you might prefer someone else like Petracca or someone when the time comes.


4548 people have traded Dusty out so far , looks like mainly for Rozee


Don't really understand that one…is it worse than just sore ribs?…people are fairly impatient.


it is the extra trades this year, we all think we are made of trades.


Howdy NDD (or anybody)
I'm going to move on T.Green this week if he's not named
To either rivers or Bennell how did they play on the weekend and what's there JS like? Both scored well by the looks but that doesn't secure ya place in ya teams 22 unfortunately. Rivers DPP with starcevich is mouth watering but bennells upside is huge


Hey Mav, I watched the game, Rivers and Bennell's stats are remarkably similar considering Rivers played 72% and Harley played 50% gametime.
Harley had 2 more possessions than Rivers and Rivers gave away 1 free, Rivers is a real dasher and they both used the ball well about 85% worth. Thing with Harley is, they'll probably manage him for awhile before fully unleashing him.
Not sure about River's JS ..Neil would know, Harley's would be pretty solid I'd imagine.


Thanks for the reply fellas.

Might grab rivers for the DPP and a healthy body both sound very similar . Cheers


Thoughts guys on Houston to Hunter Clark?? Hunter seems to have a nice role off halfback and rotates through the midfield occasionally as well.. Let me know your opinions..


Clark's looking ok Binga but he's risky, ( I'd have a look at his last year's scores)
it's going from one risky to another risky, I'd prefer if jumping off someone you paid good bucks for, to go to a proven performer than another riskyass.


I only have 12.3k in the bank before any moves but if I trade in Ablett for Dusty like I’m thinking in my next message I would have 488.3k in the bank to spend on a defender in which case I’d get Howe… what do you think?


Yeah those 2 moves would work, You'd be getting 2 hot form players, not sure if Howe can maintain what he's doing now but he'll make some money for sure, and Gazza looks to be moving nice and freely, I'd be a bit worried Gazza could get periodic rests though, but hey mate go for it if you're feeling it.
I was planning on hanging onto Houston to see if he turns it around, could bite me by getting stuck with a spud worth bugger all but who knows what's gonna happen lol

Shake n bake

Shorter qtrs definitely in In Gazzas favour.


Get him in you reckon ??? I'm highly considering the move…. Get on board the Gazza Train who's with me?


Also want to know your thoughts on Gazza Ablett?? Do you think he will be a top 10 fwd by season's end? Would u consider bringing him in 4 Dusty? As i've had a rib injury b4 and they take a few weeks to heal properly…


Could be a gem this year Binga, he's had a chance to heal up all his 35 year old niggles and could be ready to have a great last year and go out with a bang, he looked darn great last week.


Hey Rusty.

Your thoughts on Dusty & BZT who's on the bench anyway, to Rozee & Simpkin please?


As I said to Binga Andy, if you think Dusty misses more than 1 game maybe…I offloaded BZT last week for a playing player, don't like the idea of him being dropped just cause someone else is back.
Loving Connor Rozee this year, started with him and he's been fantastic..hope he keeps it up and turns into a genuine star.
Simpkin's a tough one cause he's never averaged over 70 which is fairly mediocre, you'd have to firmly believe he'll break out this year and improve by 20 points plus per game.
We don't have unlimited trades this year, not even close especially if ya did 5 last week, still gotta be careful and try to get only keepers in from now on after sorting out your rookies.


Cheers Rusty, yeah I used 4 last week, grabbing Rivers/Bennell, don't have Sturt yet.


I'm still stuck with Cavarra and Gould, have most of the other good ones, will pass on Cameron cause he might not stay, I don't reckon it hurts having 2 or 3 non players for loopholing purposes.


Rozee is still only in 6.3% of teams.


Would you bring him in for Dusty this week as I’m heavily considering the move… and then bring back Dusty back in later in the season


I wouldn't Binga unless you're one short and thinking Dusty might be out for longer than a week or so.
Gazza is still a chance of being managed and missing games I think purely cause of his age. Up to you though ultimately mate.


It’s such a line ball call I was going to bring in Rozee last week but didn’t do it.. My gut this week is pick the players you enjoy watching and that’s likely to be Dusty out who could most definitely be out for more than 1 week as I’ve had a rib injury myself…. next week I’ll probs only do 1 trade Noble out and Williamson (if he is named today of course) and keep a whole lot of money in the bank for a few weeks…

Geelong has a nice run of games; the Blues,Dees and the Suns so Gazz could go gangbusters and could finish top 6 to top 10 forwards this year due to shorter quarters


But they may rest Ablett for a few games so he doesn’t run out of energy in finals like last year


Everyone has had 3 months off so there should be no reason why he plays a full season…


i'm starting to think about it….



181 teams have started – But there will be only One Ultimate survivor.

Round 2 saw the first week of eliminations

No-one needed to use their immunity this week

The bottom two team scores from round 2 have been eliminated from their Divisions:

Div 1 – Nuk Nuk (2004) & Jonah the Jinx (2040)

Div 2 – Cinnamon Girls (1895) & Alphies Station (1912)

Div 3 – Tippa's Tearaways (1983) & Year of the Eagle (1978)

Div 4 – Tricky (1841) & The Easy Campese (1946)

Div 5 – Captain Pugwash (1985) & ET Phone Home (2097)

Div 6 – Plugger (2007) & VB Magpies (2025)

Div 7 – Buckley's A Chance (1913) & ScumMo in Hawaii (1936)

Unfortunately the above teams have now been removed from their groups.

Immunity for Round 3 goes to the teams with the highest round 2 scores from each division:

Div 1 – MADMAX (2344)

Div 2 – Boris Bumblebees (2409)

Div 3 – Multiple Scorgasms (2372)

Div 4 – The Fishermen (2279)

Div 5 – If it ain't Boak (2322)

Div 6 – Brock's Beasts (2386)

Div 7 – Rainman (2384)

teams with immunity can not be eliminated this week.

Special shout out to Banchang Barflys who are sitting 41st overall ranking.

thanks fellas


Thanks Derek,for putting the time into this concept. 1st time i have been involved. Cheers.


Thanks Billioux. You don't have to be the best to win Survivor, just make sure you're not the worst.


You da man Derek, lucky for me I had immunity last week!


Wooooo Didnt expect that!! Div 5 can’t be very strong then lol


Bont owners – do we stick fat?

I'm batting 6 deep in the middle and most of them aren't pulling their weight (Macrae, Kelly, Danger, Dunkley, Cripps & Bont).

I've got 3 options this week:

A) Green to Bennell, McAsey to Cameron (via DPP)
B) Bont to Bennell, Green to Stewart (via Rivers DPP)
C) Bont to Fyfe, Green to Bennell (leaves me with exactly $0…is it a sign!?!)



So far the good:
Held Jade Gresham and reckon he can be a top 6 mid this year (although not on average probably after an injury-affected bugger all in r1).
Held Dunkley.

The bad:
My D1 and D2 to start the season were Dan Houston and Jordan Dawson

The annoying:
Second season in a row I had Neale until the final hours before the season opened and traded him. Last year was to Macrae because I had spare money. This year was to Danger :/


Because they play first, it doesn't even give people the chance to see how a bench player will go and if Dusty could be a donut loop.


Just traded Houston and Conroy for Bennell and Pittonet. Its an interesting trade yes and i could have gone with other premium options (considering i started without Neale :/ ). However the trade has left me with 380k to work with.
Anyways, do you guys think there is a case for Pittonet holding a somewhat decent average for the next few rounds? I have NicNat at the r2 and im thinking of using him to upgrade my other lines and let Pittonet be my r2.
I'd personally be happy if Pittonet were to hold a 90ish average while i try to upgrade guys like McCluggage, Laird and to a lesser extent Dusty.
What are your guy's thoughts?


I think Kreuzer's out for another 8 weeks or so Guisseppe so yeah he can play and could score ok, 90 ish maybe, bummer about McCLuggage this year I thought he was a breakout contender.


Was thinking the exact same thing, but im getting similar vibes to the years that Billings and Brayshaw had that really let us down so i'm more than likely ready to move him onto someone else, Im really high on Boak so he'll be someone i target


I’ve brought in pittonet this week too. I think he will be competitive against the rucks of the blues next three opponents- Geelong, Essendon and saints.


Dusty to Walters a good shout?
Also Nic Nat to Pittonet or hold?

Also have Houston and Bailey Williams on my radar potentially to Howe or Sturt.

Any thoughts on what my priorites should be out of those 4 trades.

I thinking im holding Bailey Williams if Georgiades plays.


H Hooks, I think I'm holding Dusty, thought about going him to Walters but he'll probs be back next week and knock out a 120,
Williams to Sturt would have to be this week cause he's gonna increase significantly, and yeah Houston to Howe, those 2 trades make sense.
Pittonet's gonna increase a fair bit too after this round but Nicnat is up against a Martin-less Lions this week, they brought Archie Smith in to help Oscar McInerny, Nicnat could dominate that contest.


After a million reverse changes. Went NicNat to Pittonet. Dusty to Petracca. Of course NicNat might go big but hopefully Pittonet isnt too far behind him. Hopefully Walters plays a shocker in the next few weeks then pick him up.


Watching Titch closely here, despite one on ones with Diesel, i thinking he gone backwards. Not going in and getting it…


He's nursing a sore shoulder Billi, not sure how long it'll take to be 100%..also his leg probably isn't 100% yet, not sure why I picked him actually, maybe it was the comeback story. He may never get back to what he was, I hope not but it's a possibility.


Yeah not so good ay Neil, looked like the pre-flag team Ninthmond lol, quite mediocre.


Ah, fair enough Russty.