We are simple people, Lekdog and I. We see a good footballer, we select them. Nathaniel Fyfe and Maxwell Gawn are good footballers, and you’re stark raving mad if you don’t select both of these beautiful bastards in your sides for 2018.

There’s a hell of a lot to cram in, and we show we have no ability to know what clocks are or that we know how to stop doing the talking thing with our mouth holes.

Fortunately we say some relevant things and some funny things (well, like two funny things) on our quest to analyse all of the options for 2018 – this week we unpack what piqued our interest in the first four JLT games before diving in and having a look at the fantasy relevance from GWS, Hawthorn, Melbourne, North Melbourne and Port Adelaide.

Thanks to Fantasy Insider for sponsoring the Podcast and ensuring this beautiful website can continue to be a thing, and as always the intro theme (which is about to have a renovation, we know it’s too long and tacky) has sounds in it which come fromΒ https://www.bensound.com under Creative Commons.

What do you reckon, Community? Let us know what’s happening in those big old brains of yours.

Comments (308)

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  1. Patch says:

    Special shoutout to Lekdog's crickets which are hanging out outside his flapping tarp, providing some background tunes which I didn't pick up until I started editing. I will be setting his garden on fire during the week to ensure it doesn't happen again.

  2. Russty_ says:

    Fantasy Insider ay?…Go Premium for only $39.95 a month, for research you can easily do yourself, no thanks.

  3. Dangerwoodlett says:

    On ya patch/lekdog good cast fellas.

    What are your thoughts on mitch Robinson as a bit of a pod in the fwd line. Rocky has moved on maybe a sneaky chance as a strong body around the ball. Maybe a licence to attack the ball instead of the man.

    Just a thought.

    All the best

    • Patch says:

      Cheers mate!

      Spoke about him in our first pod – one to keep on the watchlist but need to see him play first.

    • Post_MaSloane says:

      You would have to rely on him being a key cog in the engine room, because playing even 50% of the game in the forward line could spell bad news. I can't see lions being much better this year than last year

  4. Post_MaSloane says:

    Maybe a changing of the guard is in order at Windy hill? #freejacko

  5. Tibor says:

    Don't beat yourself up too much if you passed on Oliver last year. The All Australian selectors, who get paid, and are supposed to know what they're doing couldn't find room for him in the initial squad of 40 players.

    Just. On Melbourne no mention of Petracca.? Even if you decide that you wouldn't pick him I thought he might rate a mention as a potential break out…

    • Lekdog says:

      Absolutely slipped through to the keeper, for what it's worth I'm not selecting him because I'm not sure he'll make the jump and I reckon he'll end up forward a fair bit

  6. Stan says:

    All thoughts and suggestions welcomed,

    Laird. Hibberd. (Melb). Harry Taylor, Sicily. C Ellis. O'Shea. Plus rookie inc Doedee

    Dusty. Titch. Fyfe. The Bont. Whitfield. JOM. Rayner. Barry. Plus rookies

    Jacobs. Gawn

    Heeny. Dev Smith. Petracca. Hogan. Keefe Ryan. Fritsch plus another rookie

    • The Ranger says:

      I've seen H.Taylor in a few teams now and I don't get it.
      I know the DPP is handy but he's only averaged above 90 once and that was back in 2013.
      I like the Whitfield pick.

    • Carl says:

      Bit of midprice madness there! Braver (or crazier) man than I

  7. gator59 says:

    Geez Patch sounds so much like Gerard Whatley.. Great stuff fellas keep it up

  8. TheGreatBozza says:

    I'd love some feed back. First team post JLT series

    Big Baller Zone
    DEF: Laird, Hibberd, Maynard, O'Shea, Doedee, Richards (Murray, Finlayson)
    MID: Dangerfield, Martin, Fyfe, Beams, Cripps, Coniglio, Redden, Brayshaw (Ahern, Kelly, Barry)
    R: Gawn, Lycett (English)
    FWD: Heeney, D.Smith, Sicily, Christensen, Dawson, Ryan (Waterman, Garlett)

    $247k bank at the moment.

    This is still very rough. I'm looking at removing Redden for a rook and getting a 3rd premo DEF. Don't trust the premo FWD's thus far, so I'll pick them up throughout the year.

    • The Ranger says:

      Lot of injury risk Bozza.
      Beams, Cripps, Cogs, Lycett, Smith, Christensen.

      • TheGreatBozza says:

        I like playing with fire. In all seriousness Cogs is the one I’ve locked in for sure. I think Beams can be a top 10 mid, injuries permitting of course. The other names will float in and out of my team based on who looks the good entering round 1. I think there’s some value that’s required around the grounds to allow us to have the uber premo more (Dusty, Kelly, Danger, Titch, Crouch etc) and premo defenders

    • Post_MaSloane says:

      Can't see Redden being a top tier midfielder. If I had to take one of the 3 WCE midfielders it would probably be Shuey.
      What are your thoughts on Maynard? Seen him in a few teams but can't see him breaking out unless he gets the fabled 'midfield minutes'

      • TheGreatBozza says:

        Chances are I will drop Redden by the time round 1 rolls around, and use the cash to get another premo DEF.

        In regards to Maynard, I’m slightly biased as a Collingwood supporter and I can see him rolling through the middle. I’d hope for a 90 odd average for his price

  9. D_I_L_D_O_R says:

    Would love to see some actual evidence presented on the podcast rather than every bloke thats half decent being a "lock". Your teams must be 45 players with a 50mil salary.

    • D_I_L_D_O_R says:

      *Edit: Not saying you haven't done the research, i'd just love to hear some more of it.

  10. Richard says:

    Seems as though Jock is still around the twittersphere.Crouching gone ? What about Higgo the sensible one . Any chance of coaxing him
    back to the Podcast and why has he disappeared ? I don't think any explanation was given.

  11. Heaps Dinkum says:

    Thanks for the shoutout guys. For listeners interested in what exactly the prize the guys mentioned at the end of the podcast is, head to https://www.heapsdinkum.com.au/products/footy-col….

  12. TommyC99 says:

    Hey guys, thoughts on my team please? Got 137k in the bank which is a bit more than i would like, but im really not sure what to spend it on. Rookies obviously subject to change. I can do Jacobs — Lycett and Naughton — Lloyd with 73k left over. Thoughts on that?

    Def: Hibberd, Laird, Simpson Naughton, Doedee, Findlayson (Murray, Mirra)
    Mid: Danger, Titch, Oliver, Fyfe, Pendles, JOM, LDU, Barry, (Holman, Ahern, Kelly)
    Ruc: Gawn, Jacobs (Hayes)
    Fwd: Heeney, Billings, Smith, Christensen, Stephenson, Ryan (Garlett, W Rioli )

    • WYatt says:

      Oliver Pendles could be real PODS

    • Russty_ says:

      Hey Tommy, pretty solid side mate, maybe consider chucking Dow in the mids instead of Barry or Ahern, that should lessen your leftover cash a bit πŸ™‚
      Not too sure on LDU at the moment either, see how he goes in his next JLT game.

      • TommyC99 says:

        Cheers Russty!

      • Bells says:

        LDU will at least play 15 games, wouldn't you say? Surely that is good enough for most sides – might not make the most cash of all rookies, but he will give you scores if you need them.

    • The Ranger says:

      Nice team Tommy.
      Nothing wrong with having a bit of cash left.
      If all goes well it means you might get to paint the fence earlier than anyone else.

  13. Naggsy says:

    jeez you blokes arent getting any easier to listen to. bad jokes & simple analysis's. :/ c'mon fellas lift!

    • Matty says:

      Also such a waste of time reviewing obvious irrelevant players etc Ryan griffen

      • Naggsy says:

        & need to stop with the "he's really good at football" line. i want to keep listening in respect of jock, crouching one and higgo but its almost unbearable!

        • Krups says:

          Same struggling to hold on. Its not there fault but its just not the same.

      • ToughBrett says:

        I have Griffen at M7 right now.
        He's taken Zac Williams' spot and is a career 90-95 player who has been racking up disposals at will during match sim.
        Better and safer than Jaeger or any other mid-price mids

    • GloryDays90 says:

      Sook ! Be a bit more grateful.

  14. The wizard says:

    Hey Guys, Are we all writing off Scott Pendlebury? Seriously considering him as my 6th mid, at his best, you cannot be more consistent…..

    • Derek says:

      all his numbers were down last year, especially contested possessions. If they continue in that direction he is finished.

      if you think it was his thumb injury that caused his 2017 decline and you think he is over that, jump on.

      If he plays every week, his average won't be too far away from the top 8.

    • Steeeve says:

      Locked in my team. Hopefully a pod!

  15. Osei O says:

    Neale, Pendlebury, Sloane or Bont

    • WYatt says:


    • Post_MaSloane says:

      Sloane for me. Last 4 games of last year showed that he may be learning to shake the tag and his ceiling is huge
      Pendelbury has always been super consistent but seems to be on a downwards trajectory, I had Bont last year and he's on my never again list
      Rate Neale highly though

      • Osei O says:

        i already have crouch, is there room for both in one midfield?

        • Post_MaSloane says:

          They both averaged 111 last year, would say there's plenty of points to go around

      • Derek says:

        of that lot. i'd have Sloane a breath in front of Neale, probably only because i like the Crows draw better.

    • Finnius says:

      I'd be going neale

  16. WYatt says:

    Sandilands or not
    Zorko or not
    J Kennedy WCE or not

  17. Derek says:

    who are the teams to avoid this year for players who are good at tagging.

    I know North have a bloke who is pretty good. what other teams are there?

  18. Jordan says:

    Best midfield pick under 558k? I know there’s cripps but are there any other good options?

    • Osei O says:

      Luke parker

    • Derek says:

      Beams is $557k, he is almost top 8.

      • dontblushbaby says:

        Yes,Beams he's tempting, I'm thinking of going down to him from J.Kelly and spending the 70k elsewhere , injury prone though is my concern

        • dontblushbaby says:

          Correction – I meant down to T.Mitchell and spend the 105k elsewhere ,We will all be looking close at the JLT to see if JOM has an impact on TMitch's SC scores

          • Derek says:

            From about round 7 onwards last year the Hawks decided that they needed to improve their Contested Possession count.

            2016 they ranked 18th as well.

            Don’t be surprised to see the hawks go close to breaking even in CP most games this year, has been a big focus for them.

            To do this they will need JOM and TMitch to step it up.

            CP good for SuperCoach

          • The Ranger says:

            I'm a massive fan of Beams but I'm trying harder than ever to minimize the injury risk in my initial selections.
            I want my starting keepers to play 22 games and I'll be very surprised if Beams manages that.

    • Danners says:

      Shuey looks like he could step it up this year. Good JLT 1, surely will have a bigger role in the West Coast midfield

    • Randimcliche says:


  19. Canny says:

    Jack Redden has averaged over 100 in 3 seasons in the past, so he's somewhat "proven". He's at the good age of 27, I'm seeing good signs with him. I'm so sure he'll burn me though. I hate this game.

    • Derek says:

      I really would like a WCE midfielder, massive hole there. Is there any one cheaper who will be in the guts?

      • gator59 says:

        They reckon Ahcoo will roll through the midfield at times

        • The Ranger says:

          Had him on the watchlist Gator but he;'s still on crutches after getting injured against Port.

  20. The BONT says:

    Does anyone think DANGER is worth the $750K ?

    • GloryDays90 says:

      Over 30 percent of Supercoach players do

    • Finnius says:

      You are crazy if you don't pick him – permacaptain every week and wayy too much to lose when he goes 160 two weeks in a row and your opponents both have him

    • BrownlowBoy says:

      Lock. As Derek says, pay the price

      • Derek says:

        if You don’t start with him, thinking he will get cheaper, you can’t control when you get him. What if he drops in price early? You won’t have cash to upgrade so you have to sideways trade, waste of trade, plus if you do side trade, you are probably get rid of someone who has dropped in price as well, undoing the advantage you get from getting Danger cheaper.

    • Rick Grimes says:

      Worth every cent. Just can't risk going without. Will probably pull out 180 first round if you don t.

      • The Far Canal says:

        Think I'll take that chance. Obviously he's going to score more than pretty much everyone (barring an unforseen stuff up), but that money is too much, and therefore not worth every cent at all. Those additional $$$ are more valuable used elsewhere.

    • Danners says:

      No, will wait and see and save the $100k

    • Bells says:

      Nuh. That's crazy money. If you have Fyfe, Dusty and Tich you should get some decent captains scores without him. Then wait for him to get KTFO in the first 5 minutes of a game. Not that I'd wish for..
      .aaahhh hang on I kinda do…in the nicest possible way….. Maybe he can play 5 minutes and his wife goes into labor or something happy like that….


    • Randomcliche says:

      Easy. Yes. Danger plus rookie 200p, 875k. It's actually difficult to achieve that expected points per game with midpriced madness.

    • Russty_ says:

      Of course he's worth it…are you crazy or some shit? πŸ™‚

  21. John says:

    Is De Guioy worth the risk?

    • Finnius says:

      He is suspended indefinitely…. I don't like his chances of putting up a huge round one score.

    • Tibor says:

      In a word, no. So many other options, why consider this tool. Quite apart from his erratic behaviour he is simply not that good and he plays in a side that is middle of the road on the best day. Get a good player instead.

    • Russty_ says:

      Hey John, he lied about injuring his hand whilst throwing a frisbee to a Dog, when he really was in a drunken Bar fight, then he got caught drink driving.
      So, he's not really worth much I'd say, he has alcohol problems and he's still only a very young man.
      Avoid..as he could be heading down the Harley Bennell road.

  22. WYatt says:

    3 Forwards 6 Mids Premo ones that is or 5 Mids and 4 Forwards

    • Post_MaSloane says:

      Would depend on who the premos are and the rest of your team

    • StevoRivo says:

      I think 5 and 4 works better. Better rookie options in the mids.

    • Captain Risky says:

      It will all depend on where the rookies are! At the moment most options look good on the screen, but come round one you want to have a plan B..C…
      I'm trying to go 6 premo mids, probably 4 forwards as to me fwd rookies are looking scarce but who knows… In 3 weeks all will be revealed πŸ™‚ then the real panic begins

  23. StevoRivo says:

    Team change number 246…

    Adding in an extra premo to give it more balance. Any feedback welcomed…

    D: Yeo, Laird, Hibberd, Shaw, Richards, Doedee (Murray, Morgan);
    M: Danger, Dusty, Mitchell, Fyfe, Cripps, LDU, Higgins, Barry (Kelly, Spargo, Worpell);
    R: Ryder, Gawn (Cameron);
    F: Heeney, Lambert, Smith, Christensen, Dawson, Garlett (Ryan, McCartin (Syd).

    • StevoRivo says:

      Thoughts on the above team please?

      Only $8k left and Lambert is my “wildcard” πŸ‘

    • Derek says:

      Problem right now are the rookies. I can only count 2 rookies in your team who are more than likely to play round 1.

      I would go Shaw to Mirra and have a war chest when teams are announced, might need to spend up on the rookies this year.

    • The Ranger says:

      Not bad Stevo but personally I think you need to have a much bigger bank at the start of the season.
      Somewhere between 50-100K enables you to jump onto the right rookies as they appear over the first few rounds.
      e.g. you don't have A.Brayshaw who is 198K. If he comes out with a 102 and 81 in the first two rounds whilst Spargo hasn't got a game you want the cash to be able get him in before his price jumps.
      It doesn't always work out and not everyone does it but it's worked well for me in the past.

      • StevoRivo says:

        Ok so modification 247. Better balanced with better rookies though still tight on cash….

        Shaw down to Bonner
        Lambert to Walters
        Higgins to Graham
        Worpell to Brayshaw
        Morgan to Murphy
        McCartin to Fritsch

  24. natopatato says:

    chill with the simpsons samples

  25. Rick Grimes says:


    Laird, Simpson, Houli, Bowes, rookie, rookie, rookie, rookie

    Danger, Martin, Titch, Crouch, Fyfe, Cripps, Brodie, rookie, rookie, rookie, rookie

    Sauce, Gawn, rookie

    Heeney, Dahlhaus, Petracca, rookie, rookie, rookie, rookie, rookie

    If there is a chance I can run a rookie/cheap ruck I'll pump an extra premi into the forward line.

  26. Jason says:

    GREAT PODCAST FELLAS!!!! P.s. Will the no name trolls stop saying the podcast unbearable I think it's the same person using different names and thumbs upon getting each other's comments. Great Job LEK and PATCH have listened to each podcast so far and great in depth analysis of each team. I like the Simpsons references as I grew up with them.

    • Rick Grimes says:

      Agree. Can't be easy and they deserve respect. If you don't like it, don't listen.

    • Lekdog says:

      Thanks mate, appreciate it. Everyone entitled to an opinion and if they all want to run their own podcast and website they're welcome too haha

  27. gator59 says:

    Hi Rick, Derek and BB would you like to join this league please,, Oceans 14.. code… 262945

  28. Wally Brando says:

    Parker or Treloar?

  29. Jordan says:

    Titch or dusty? Titch better for my bye round stricture as I already have 4 miss from the round 14 bye. But if I don’t start with dusty I have no Richmond players and two hawthorn players. I know that doesn’t matter but it’s just OCD I like a nice spread of players in my team.

  30. Ben says:

    Christensen vs Raynar??

  31. Bells says:

    Any Freo fans around to explain if B Banfield is going to play ahead of Cerra and Brayshaw? Surely they want games into their top 2 picks…

    • leedy says:

      I wouldn't think he would get a game ahead of Brayshaw. Haven't seen Cerra yet. They have two games (a scratch match – that no one can attend) and a JLT both against WCE over the next two weeks. I imagine if he plays as he did against Adelaide he would put himself front and centre for selection. Was fairest and Best for Claremont in the WAFL last year and his stats for that season are here "http://www.wafl.com.au/players/view/5937". Pretty impressive and also averaged 5-6 tackles a game.

    • BrownlowBoy says:

      Think he may play small forward maybe? Could force Ballantyne/Matera to pull their fingers out otherwise Banfield could slot in there.

    • Luke says:

      Ross Lyon Factor. Can't forget old Ross the boss. He hates us supercoachers. In saying that Banfield is on my bench

  32. WYatt says:

    Neale Fyfe Blakely Banfield how many of them should i have

    • SamBoga says:

      All 3

    • Pitch72 says:

      Beware of FURL!!

    • Finnius says:

      And Brayshaw…..

      Wouldn't touch blakely with a 20 ft barge pole although a few others don't agree. Its tough being the 3rd/4th string midfielder in any side and still maintaining a 105+ average which you would want from him. At his price I would even need to see him be a keeper, which for me is 108+ in the midfield, and I just can't see that out of him especially with those others ahead of him.

      Not too many qualms about neale and fyfe as they are both jets and slightly different players. Banfield is more of a forward and Brayshaw is their gun out of the draft. Would really not be tooo worried picking all those 4 – although if they do get thrashed one game you may get hit hard so it is a good thing to keep in mind.

      Conversely of course if one of them has a bad day the others will probably compensate… so it may work OK.

      In the end of course it is up to you πŸ™‚

  33. WYatt says:

    Is Barlow good pick

    • ZerrettForPM says:

      A risky one. He also has the round 10 bye. Wait and see how he hold up in the JLT if named.

      • Derek says:

        He is a good pick.

        Huge hole has been left in Suns midfield and plenty of SC points to be picked up by someone.

        Barlow must be in line to get a few of them points. Hanley as well. I have an aweful feeling Hall will be the big winner.

        Barlow is currently my F3 but could easy become Devon.

    • The Ranger says:

      I think the games has gone past him. A bit like what happened to Jobe Watson last year.

      • Derek says:

        Barlow will be pure midfield. that is a big box ticked for a forward listed player

        • The Ranger says:

          Not convinced he will Derek. He's too slow.
          He's on the watchlist and I'll be watching the JLT but I have him behind Smith for F3 at the moment.

    • Rick Grimes says:

      Yep, has been in and out of my team. Body is the issue. And bye.

      • Cam_H says:

        If he's a keeper, then the bye will help – as apposed to the Round 14 bye dung spray … no?

  34. StevoRivo says:

    Thoughts on Lambert πŸ‘ at F2?

    • Rick Grimes says:

      Bit light I feel. He's a POD pick at f3, at best, imo.

      • StevoRivo says:

        Cheers Rick. What about Walters?

        • Rick Grimes says:

          Walters I'm more keen on. Gonna be important for them and can rack up huge scores. But consistently is potentially an issue.

  35. Bryce says:


    Def – Laird, Simpson, Hibberd (Melb), Sicily, Pearce, Doedee (Murray, Mirra)

    Mid – Titch, Zerrett/Danger, Dusty, Kelly, Fyfe, Conigs, Dow, Brayshaw (Barry, Worpel, Kelly)

    Rucks – Big Ben, Gawn (Cameron)

    Fwd – McLean, Smith, Robinson, Christensen, Keeffe, Rioli (Ryan, Fritsch)

    $28,200 (Zerrett) or $4,500 (Danger) remaining.

    Pick it apart fellas but pls explain your reasons πŸ™‚

    • Bryce says:

      Or can have

      Big Ben to Lycett and this midfield

      Titch, Danger, Zerrett, Dusty, Kelly, Fyfe, Bradshaw etc

    • Finnius says:

      Go Zerrett to Danger and Coniglio to Brodie/LDU/another rookie and bring barry onfield and then pocket the spare cash.

      You can't go without Dangerfield and you need to utilize the good rookies in the midfield more – I personally don't understand the Coniglio selection as he needs to average 110 to be a good selection and he is a good 5 points off that at his peak.

      • Derek says:

        I would pick Coniglio ahead of a Parker, Cripps, Rocky, or anyone else in that under $550k level.

        Can’t see anyone in that group finishing in top 8, so anyone you select will need an upgrade at some point.

        I put Coniglio in that group as well, will score similar, so why not save $100k?

        If you are going a Parker, Beams, Cripps type because you think they are (really) a top 8 mid, I agree, get them over Coniglio.

        • Derek says:

          Before you ask.

          Danger, Dusty, Fyfe, Ablett*, TMitch, Merrett, MCrouch, Oliver, are my top 8 mids.

          * Gaz will be for ave but won’t play 21 games.

        • Finnius says:

          My point is don't go any of them as I don't think that any of them will be top 8, 10 or even 15…. Save yourself the cash and get a rookie or just go all out and get an uberpremo… we have so many good 600k+ options this year there is no point fluffing around with the guys who may or may not cut it

    • Derek says:

      Check your maths. I think Danger is more than $24k more than Merrett.

  36. Marco_Polo94 says:

    First post of the new season and it's good to be back! Sorry to read all the negative comments Lek and Patch, I can't imagine it's been easy trying to fill Jock's size 19 shoes. Take on the constructive criticism, ignore the haters, and keep tinkering away until you boys find your feet. It'll take some time but I'm confident you'll both find the right balance of gags/stats at some point. You're both statistical legends so I have no doubt you're the right blokes to lead the community forward through this transition.

    Onto SC and what a horrible anus season 2017 was for me. After my most successful season yet in 2016 (top 30 and 150 in real dream team and SC respectively), I entered the 2017 campaign with an unhealthy amount of optimism and overthinking only for the fantasy gods to smite the absolute shit out of me. A mistake I don't plan on repeating this season as it was my worst finish to date since taking this stuff more serious.

    I plan on a more relaxed approach this year with less drafting, less thinking and more following of thy gut. At this very early stage it's pretty difficult to know anything about my structures and what players I'm keen on, but blokes like Redden, Shuey, JOM, McGrath have all piqued my interest. Like many community members a WCE midfielder seems tasty for 2018.

    Here's to my (hopeful) redemption in 2018, you'll find me in the comments.

  37. SamBoga says:

    Def: M. Hibberd, K. Simpson, J. Lloyd, N. Coffield(Mid), A. Naughton, T. Doedee
    Bench: L. Keeffe(FWD), D. Mirra

    MID: P. Dangerfield, D. Martin, T. Mitchell, D. Zorko, M. Crouch, N. Fyfe, D. Armitage, B. Banfield
    BENCH: J. Garlett(Fwd), D. Barry, A. Styles(Def)

    RUC : M. Gawn, S. McKernan(Fwd)
    BENCH: T. Olango

    FWD: I. Heeney9Mid), J. Billings, C. Curnow, A. Christensen, J. Higgins, B. Fritsch
    BENCH: C. Ballenden(Def) , J. Brown(Mid)

    • The Ranger says:

      McKernan? Really? Brave call.

      • SamBoga says:

        Taking a punt on him. also putting that money in Mid with 6 premo.

        Nat was on the news for not being 100%
        Paddy has bye round early
        Jacobs, Brodie, Stefan and goldie i am not too sold on them to sacrifice any Premo from mid…
        Chasing points early in the season coz its always hard to catch up later in the season..

        I may be tripping but I know i will change my team like 20 times before the season starts.

        • The Ranger says:

          Haha ha..won't we all mate?!
          I've still got Ryder at the moment but that bye is killing me….

          • SamBoga says:

            I will upgrade my ruck after Port's bye round.. get paddy in to cover the other 3 bye round.

            All strategy looks good before the season but some unexpected events will screw everything up and we start with clean slate every round.. its a mindf**k

        • Finnius says:

          One good JLT match isn't really much to go off – wayyyy too risky for mine

      • SamBoga says:

        Lycett (if Nat does his knee again) is another option but doesn't have DPP

        • Luke says:

          Higgins won't play for the Tigers early on if at all this season. I'm a tigers fan and Shai Bolton will play for Dan Rioli's spot since he's recovering from ankle surgery. Garthwaite a chance to be named ahead of Conca, Miles

          • SamBoga says:

            Thanks mate.. Will consider this. Higgins is in the top 10 most picked rookie..

            • The Ranger says:

              Unless there's a glut of good rookies to choose from I might keep Higgins as my M11/F8.
              I can loophole him in the early rounds where possible and wait for him to play later in the year.

              • Luke says:

                My gut is he won't play. Jack Higgins will be a great player similar in the mould of Brent Harvey. I think the Tiges will let him get some form in the VFL this season as they like to reward 2nd and 3rd year players. Shai and Dan Rioli are best mates so no doubt Hardwick wants to give him a crack in the side. Corey Ellis is another who will keep Higgins out of the side. Mark my words

        • Doughboy says:

          I think Lycett is a no-brainer, not to mention great value and good job security

  38. Mitch says:

    This is my first team lock and loaded, thoughts ?
    Yeo, Laird, Hibberd, Saad, Doedee, Murray, Grathwaite, Mirra
    Dangerfield, T.Mitchell, Fyfe, Pendlebury, J.Selwood, Banfield, J.Garrlett, Barry, Kelly, Worpel, Bell
    Martin, Gawn, Lavender
    Heaney, Greene, Wingard, Smith, Keefe, Ryan, Mcartan, Brown

    • Maverick says:

      Greene hasn’t been training with the main group much . Had an injury while overseas and bound to be suspended through the season once maybe twice. Save ya self headache now and maybe swap him to tracca, Walters or Dahlhaus?

    • Finnius says:

      Saad will not average more than 80 and if you want him to be a keeper he needs to be much higher than that

  39. Marco_Polo94 says:

    First post of the new season and it's good to be back! Sorry to read all the negative comments Lek and Patch, I can't imagine it's been easy trying to fill Jock's size 19 shoes. Take on the constructive criticism, ignore the haters, and keep tinkering away until you boys find your feet. It'll take some time but I'm confident you'll both find the right balance of gags/stats at some point. You're both statistical legends so I have no doubt you're the right blokes to lead the community forward through this transition.

    Onto SC and what a horrible anus season 2017 was for me. After my most successful season yet in 2016 (top 30 and 150 in real dream team and SC respectively), I entered the 2017 campaign with an unhealthy amount of optimism and overthinking only for the fantasy gods to smite the absolute shit out of me. A mistake I don't plan on repeating this season as it was my worst finish to date since taking this stuff more serious.

    I plan on a more relaxed approach this year with less drafting, less thinking and more following of thy gut. At this very early stage it's pretty difficult to know anything about my structures and what players I'm keen on, but blokes like Redden, Shuey, JOM, McGrath have all piqued my interest. Like many community members a WCE midfielder seems tasty for 2018.

    You'll find me in the comments.

  40. Steeeve says:

    To start Danger or not?

    Last season he opened with 416 points in the first three rounds! This still dropped his price about $23,000 to $693,200. But that's a lot of points to miss out on.
    After that he pumped out a 90, 120, 65. This is exactly what you're hoping for if you don't select him. It caused his price to fall to $560,000 in round 9 — right when you'd have cash cows ready to slaughter.
    From then on his scores were out of this world.

    The year before Danger went sub-100 twice in his first four games. But the other two matches he went off, so his price never dropped. An 86 in round 9 led to his price falling to the $600,000 mark at the byes. Those who jumped on at his absolute cheapest were instantly rewarded with a 229-point outburst.

    So history shows even in his two amazing previous seasons Danger could be brought into your team for $600,000 or less around the byes. This is a mammoth saving.

    The two issues are:
    1. There is no guarantee he will drop to that level again. Even dropping to $650,000 would not make the money you've saved worth the trade — especially considering the points you've missed out on
    2. Even if Danger falls to his lowest level at Geelong, say $550,000, you will still have missed out on a big chunk of points. When he was at his lowest value in the past two years (round 9 2017 — $560,000) he had averaged over 114 points across eight games.

    • Derek says:

      all good numbers. but you can say that about any of the expensive players, they all drop in value.

      Off the top of my head, last year 48 out of the 50 most expensive players droped in price from their starting value, in 2016 it was 49/50. so unless you are starting with 8 keepers in the guts, you are going to be buying any other keepers at a reduced price. i agree that if danger drops it maybe a bigger decline that others, but you can't just look at it in isolation.

      • Derek says:

        im Not starting TMitch, say he goes alright and drops at some point to $590, I’ve saved $65k instead of $150k on Danger, the net is only $85k.

        The question is, how many points am Ahead by having Danger instead of Mitch? Allow a few points for the extra $100k saved would have scored.

        I don’t this there is $85k value there, especially with a few C options.

        • Steeeve says:

          Oh yeah I was just trying to impart some facts. If anyone read my post and thought it might be a good idea not to start Danger then they are fools.
          That quick analysis I whipped up shows that even in the best case scenario (for those not starting him) you lose a lot of points for a significant chunk of the season.

          • Derek says:

            That’s good. For a moment I thought you were not starting him

            • Steeeve says:

              I originally added a final sentence saying I would start Danger. But then i thought nah let people read it and decide for themselves.

    • Rick Grimes says:

      He gives you a perma captain option. So not only can you grab the 150, you'll double it. Yes you can grab him cheap at some stage, but you may already be well out of contention unless you've nailed your captain choices.

  41. WYatt says:

    Def – Laird, P.Hanley, Hibberd (Melb), O'Shea, Keefe , Doedee (Murray, Cummins)

    Mid – Titch, Danger, Fyfe, THE Zorko,J Kelly, Ahern, Dow, Holman (Barry, Worpel, T Kelly)

    Rucks – Gawn,Sandilands (Cameron)

    Fwd – Heeney, J Kennedy, Smith, Barlow, Higgins , Rioli (Ryan, Fritsch)

    Thoughts? Changes?

  42. TommyC99 says:

    Dusty or Titch to start? Originally was going to go with Titch and grab dusty when he should drop in price. But that VC option is pretty valuable early (danger plays late early on). Titch is more of a C than a VC pick

    • Finnius says:

      I have gone with Titch out of the two, purely because of the bye situation in my side. I couldn't have Dusty, Fyfe, Danger, Crouch, Heeney, Laird and Billings all out in the one rd.

  43. Jordan says:

    550K or less midfielder and christiensen
    Dusty and 170k or less fwd rookie

    With option one I only have 6 rookies on field

    With option two I have danger titch and dusty

    Which option?

  44. Jason says:

    Does the supercoach app still have the bye round helper for the players I can't seem to find it. Thanks community

  45. The Magpie Dentist says:

    Laird, Hibberd, Simpson, Sicily, O'Brien, Doedee (Murray, Keefe)
    Danger, Dusty, Fyfe, Bont, Ross, Dow, Stephenson, Barry (Holman, Banfield, Kelly)
    Ryder, Gawn (DeKoning)
    Heeney, Dahlhaus, Petracca, Christensen, Ahern, Higgins (Rioli, Garlett)


  46. Maverick says:

    could L.Jones actually be a legitimate D3 or D4? his end to last season was terrific once he went down back an he is lighting up JLT1 he is doing whatever he likes out there and looks great

    • Defying_Madness says:

      I would be looking at Marchbank instead of Jones. I haven't been watching the game but based on the stats it looks like he may have taken over Docherty's role. Can anyone who is watching confirm or deny this?

      • TOPHAWK1 says:

        Looks that way mate. Marchbank is looking very good at half time (60SC) with Jones on 73SC, and Simpson on 42 SC. Marchbank at $381K is awkwardly priced, but is young and could easily propel his average from 69 in 2017 to 85+ this season, especially if he plays in the pozzie he is playing in tonight. I'd rather pay the price and go for a proven gun in that back line.

      • Rick Grimes says:

        Marchbank is peaking the interest. Am on Simpson at the moment as I see him getting most benefit from the lack of Doc. But if Marchy lifts his output to 90+ consistently, he's a steal.

        • Defying_Madness says:

          He is peaking my interest for sure. If he plays in a similar role in the next JLT match and pumps out another strong score I will be considering him for my team. The cash I would gain by starting him instead of Simpson is also extremely tempting.

    • TOPHAWK1 says:

      Liam Jones does look solid, but I am prefer Kade Simpson. With the Doc out for the year, he should be a busy busy boy. That said, Jones could be worth a punt and is 90K cheaper than Simmo. Not for me though. Cheers.

    • Finnius says:

      Even Shane Savage – liked the look of him at the end of last year and has looked excellent today. Scores after coming back from injury last year: 101, 125, 107, 103, 115, 94, 76, 81 for an average of just over 100. Only 1% ownership as well.

    • Skindog says:

      Big call, whats his POD %???

  47. TOPHAWK1 says:

    Any reason Cam O'Shea is not playing tonight?

    • Finnius says:

      Just don't think he is good enough… listed as an emergency. They have Marchbank, Byrne, Simpson and Mullet coming out of defence

  48. TommyC99 says:

    Tracca and Cripps – 54k left over
    Oliver and Christensen – 137k left over

  49. Clueless says:

    Thoughts on Shuey as a point of difference??

    • John says:

      He would have 4 or 5 players hanging off him each game. Hutchenson from WC may be worth looking at instead.

    • Derek says:

      He is in a very big group of players just below the elite midfielders. So many to choose from, so many to get wrong.

      One thing in his favour, there is a big hole in the WCE midfield to fill

    • Rocksta says:

      Waste of a pick. Won’t average high enough but still costs quite a bit. He isn’t SC relevant IMHO.

    • Rick Grimes says:

      Had him Last year. Super frustrating. Might get more of it this year but will also get a lot of attention. No for me.

  50. Rocksta says:

    Billings or Greene?

  51. WYatt says:

    Fwd – Heeney, J Kennedy, Smith, Barlow, Higgins , Rioli (Ryan, Fritsch)
    Good Foriward

  52. Westy says:

    Updated team
    B – Hibberd, Hanley, Simpson, Savage, Doedee, Murray, Watson, Keefe
    M – Martin, Mitchell, Zorko, Fyfe, Cripps, Armitage, T Kelly, Barry, Fogarty, Freeman, Holman
    R – Gawn, Smith, English
    F – Heeney, Barlow, D Smith, Deledio, Ahern, Ryan, Garlett, Naish.
    + 163K cash
    Still more work to be done.

    Initial team
    B – O'Shea, Murray, Doedee, J Smith, Keeffe H Goddard, Rice, Mirra
    M – Martin, Mitchell, Zorko, Fyfe, Cripps, Trengove, T Kelly, Barry, Fogarty, Freeman, Holman
    R – Z Smith, Natanui, English
    F – Heeney, Barlow, Deledio, J Higgins, Ahern, Ryan, Garlett, Naish.
    +2M cash

  53. FearTheBeard says:

    Lads can I please get some thoughts on the current set up, every year competitive as with the old boy :

    Laird, Hibberd, Lloyd, Sicily, Doedee, Murray, Keefe, Murphy

    Danger, Dusty, Titch, Fyfe, Bont, Armitage, Banfield, Kelly, Garlett, Worpel, Barry

    Gawn, Lynette, Cameron

    Heeney, Barlow, Smith, Petracca, Christensen, Ahern, Fritsch, Ryan.

    Thanks community πŸ™‚

    • The Ranger says:

      I reckon you can pick up Dusty for a bit less so I'm not starting him Beard.

      • FearTheBeard says:

        Thoughts overall the rest?

        I'm a Dusty and Tigs fan mate :p that ain't happening on my end πŸ˜‰

        • The Ranger says:

          Hahaha…other than that it looks good.
          Obviously all the rookies are tbc at this stage.
          The only other thing I'd flag is that Armitage, Lycett, Barlow, Smith and Christensen are all a bit injury prone.
          Good luck mate.

          • FearTheBeard says:

            Thanks mate and to you! Anyone in particular you would be looking at over those lads?

            • The Ranger says:

              I prefer Dawson to Lycett and other than that I prefer to go guns and rookies so I'd look to drop one of Barlow or Christensen down to a rookie.
              Then you only have three injury concerns not five.

  54. Jdizzle says:

    Thoughts on this line-up everyone? Few risky picks in there but would welcom any feedback overall

    DEF: Yeo, Lloyd, Wilson, Saad, O’Shea, Keeffe,( Doedee, Murray)

    MID: Dusty, Zorko, Fyfe, Kennedy, Cripps, Coniglio, A.Brayshaw, LDU, (T.Kelly, Worpel, Holman)

    RUC: Grundy, Gawn, (English)

    FWD: Heeney, Petracca, Lobb, Stringer, D.Fogarty, Higgins, (Ahern, W.Rioli)

    Cheers community!

    • The Ranger says:

      Don't mind the Wilson pick and Kennedy might actually be a POD this year.
      Too many midpricers for my liking and you need to have Danger IMHO.

      • Jdizzle says:

        Was thinking I could get danger at a cheaper price later on, but am worried about losing out on the chunk of points he could potentially have given me in the time it takes for his price (if it even does) go down

        • Post_MaSloane says:

          Depends what you're going for, if you're going for rank in my opinion not having danger will cost you valuable points, however if you just want to kick your mates arses in your work league it's definitely feasible to pick him up at a cheaper price

        • Derek says:

          you can say that about every premium, you will get them all cheaper at a later time. 48/50 most expensive players last year dropped in price at some point from their starting price, and it was 49/50 the year before.

          • ZerrettForPM says:

            Not all of them cost 700+k Derek..

            • Derek says:

              Lets say you don't get Danger and decide to wait for him to drop in price. lets say Danger averages 135 for the first 5 and has a couple of 100's. he will be around $630k by round 9. a massive drop of $130k. a perfect plan, assuming it fits in with your cash generation and any other injury problems, believe me it never works out like that, but you saved yourself $130k. well done.

              lets say you started TMitch instead of Danger. lets say TMitch averages 115 for the first 5 and then has a couple of 100's. he will be around $570k by round 9. drop of $83k. This is when other people who didn't have him can get him.

              this only puts you $47k better off by starting TMitch than starting Dangerfield.

              However, Danger has outscored TMitch by 140 pts (double that if you managed the C). is that worth $47k?

              all the premiums drop in value, Danger may drop more than the others, but you still have to look at it relative to the ones that you do have that other players will be able to get cheaper.

              • Liam says:

                You also get the extra 100k to spend else where. Maybe that’s Grundy to Kruezer. There’s an extra 15 points.
                That needs to be added in the calculations.

              • Russty_ says:

                100% right Derek, it's not about the money in the end, it's about how many points you have.

                • ZerrettForPM says:

                  Yes… but you get the 150~k to spend elsewhere which can easily add points elsewhere.

        • Russty_ says:

          Getting someone in later on…is not as easy as it appears to be, I couldn't get Titch in last year until about round 17, in the meantime, I missed out on a sh#tload of points, and that'll be worse leaving Danger out.

  55. Skate or die says:

    Bailey Banfield is son to West Coast legend Drew Banfield

  56. WYatt says:

    Def – Laird, P.Hanley, Hibberd (Melb), O'Shea, Keefe , Doedee (Murray, Cummins)

    Mid – Titch, Danger, Fyfe, THE Zorko,J Kelly, Ahern, Dow, Holman (Barry, Worpel, T Kelly)

    Rucks – Gawn,Sandilands (Cameron)

    Fwd – Heeney, J Kennedy, Smith, Barlow, Higgins , Rioli (Ryan, Fritsch)

    Thoughts? Changes?

    • Derek says:

      what are your thoughts on starting Sandilands. he is $480k, you can't be thinking of him as a keeper? he won't make you much cash. he averaged 95 last year if you take his 12 out. that is about what he will average again before you factor in injury and Darcy.

      • WYatt says:

        Who should i get then got 250 k bank

        • Derek says:

          $250k in bank, you can get anyone.

          Ryder or Witts are both good picks but the darn round 10 bye makes it hard to pick them. Kreuzer is the safest option, but is a tad expensive.

          If you are really looking for a cheap ruck that you can turn into a Ryder or Kreuzer or Nic Nat later, Simpson $290k, Leuenberger $376k, Hickey $327k Naismith $363k and Boyd $339k are all possibilities to be starting rucks for their team this year. need to watch the JLT and team announcements for them.

  57. mitch says:

    Not hearing much about Birchall at 270k???

  58. Rick Grimes says:

    Crazy as it sounds, keeping an eye on Aish tonight. Could this be the year he delivers? Probably not, but I like cheap defender options.

  59. Rick Grimes says:

    So, one quarter in and Heath Shaw is a lock for r1

  60. hedski says:

    Trust Cogs to come out get 10 possies in the first qtr when I flicked him a few days ago. Looks good.

  61. CheekyNandos7 says:

    Would you rather have:

    A) Hurley, LDU, Dahl and $133k


    B) Shaw, M.Crouch, Christensen and $51k

  62. JEL says:

    Any thoughts on Aliir?
    Had a couple of games last year, but is still almost rookie price at $218K.
    Is he likely to feature more in Sydney's plans?

    • Doughboy says:

      I was thinking of this fella as a rookie pod, has highest average 56.7 for 3 games 2017, well above nearest def rivals. Watch him JLT2…….

  63. Jfizzle says:

    Heath Shaw or Jake Lloyd?

  64. Cozz says:

    Supercoach League 408572 for anyone in top 1 to 10 thousand

  65. some little kid says:

    Hey guys,

    I'm after some thoughts on my structure, players at similar prices are interchangeable.

    Laird, Hibberd, Lloyd, Shaw, Doedee, Finlayson (Cumming, Goddard)

    Martin, T Mitchell, Z Merrett, Fyfe, Cripps, O'Meara, Dow, Brodie (Barry, T Kelly, Worpel)

    Grundy, Gawn (D Cameron)

    Heeney, Dahlhaus, D Smith, McKay, Venables, Ryan (Ahern, W Rioli)

    Cheers guys, g2g mums calling me

  66. Apocalypse says:

    Hey guys,

    I've tinkered a few structures at the moment downgraded Danger to Zorko and then I'm able to upgrade a rookie to Petracca at F3. Any thoughts would go appreciated, don't mind the idea of Longer at R2 over Simpson?

    Laird, Simpson, Lloyd, Shaw, O'Shea, Doedee (Murray, Morgan)

    Mitchell, Zorko, Crouch, Duncan, Fyfe, Cripps, O'Meara, L. UDL (Banfield, Barry, Naish)

    Gawn, Simpson (Cameron)

    Heeney, Mclean, Petracca, Garlet, Fritsch, Ryan (Ahern, Switzoki)

  67. Doughboy says:

    Laird Hibberd Sicily Doedee Murray Finlayson ( L.Murphy & Mirra)

    Danger Dusty Tmitch JKelly MCrouch Fyfe Cripps Barry (TKelly Worpel JBrown)

    Gawn & Lycett (Olango) – Sunday loophole

    Heeney Barlow DSmith Stephenson Ahern Ryan (Garlett & Ballenden)

    $61,600 in the Bank

    • Derek says:

      That is a serious midfield.

      I would go Shaw or Hanley ahead of Sicily. Too much stress watching him.

    • Carl says:

      Really like it Doughboy. I think there are 2 risks in the team. 1 being Lycett if he only ave 70-80 is that good enough for you?
      The second being you miss out on the expensive yet quite possibly best midfield rookie talent in Brayshaw, Dow, LDU etc.

      I’m tossing up between close to this team and my current version which has a couple of those rookie mids + Kreuzer

      • Derek says:

        13 keepers seems about right, but where you have them all depends on the rookies, especially the cheap ones.

        There is the danger these boys are like Picket, simpkin, menapoo who will give you 20’s so there is some safety in the more expensive rookies.

        Can’t really finish team until playing rookies are known. If there are plenty in def and fed, your midfield will be great to start the year.

        I can see 3 good defender rookies but really only 1 forward.

  68. Jordan says:

    What is the minimum amount of keepers and maximum amount of rookies I should start with

    I currently have 12-13 keepers plus Sicily with 6 rookies is that fine?

    • Derek says:

      I started 14 keepers last year. Finished the season with 8 of them, and that was after trading Gawn back in.

      I’m thinking 12 is a minimum. 3, 5, 1, 3.

      If you try and stretch to 14, you end up with a couple of keepers who really went and you will regret them later.

      Make those 12 as bullet proof as possible and the other 18 are for making cash.

  69. Jordan says:

    Howe, dahlahuase or billings (I have Sicily so that’s how I can change position)

  70. Juzz says:

    What you think lads (rookies subject to change of course)

    Yeo, laird, hibberd, Naughton, doadee, Finlayson (cofffield, Mihocek)
    Dangerfield, Martin, Fyfe, bontempelli, Cripps, Coniglio, OMeara, Barry (Kelly, worpel, Holman)
    Grundy, Gawn (Cameron)
    Walters, D Smith, Petracca, Dunkley, Tiziani, fritsch (Garlett, Ryan)

    • Patch says:

      Quite like it mate! Feel there might be better options than Bont personally, but Champion Data love him and as we love saying he's one of those blokes who are good at football.

      Also not sold on Petracca but give him another game to improve mid time – and to see what other options rear their heads. There's bugger all down there.

      • Russty_ says:

        who are the better options than Bont for the same price who have averaged over 100 for the last 3 years?

  71. Mr.Brightside says:

    M.Robinson or S.Sicily at F4 – leaning towards Sicily, higher sealing imo ? , Robinson might play more a negative roll, dunno

  72. dontbluashbaby says:

    I have atm – Heeney, Barlow, Devon, Sicily ,Christenson ,Ryan, Garlett, Fritch

    I can afford McLean and he would be F2 or leave it as it is but go Christensen to JoshThomas who I've been watching

  73. Mr.Brightside says:

    Best Rookie Mids excluding DDP on exposed form look like – Banfield,Barry,Dow,Kelly – anyone I've missed ? LDU ? I'll be watching Holman with interest today

  74. Jamie Brierley says:

    Who wrote the next midfield beast article in last year's magazine ?
    If it were one of you three can you repeat for this season ?
    Helped me get Oliver, Blakely And Acres in my keeper league.

  75. JMac says:

    Hey community just seeing what your thoughts are on this left of field lineup that has a few PODs in it as well as a few mid pricers (which i am aware is high risk, but could be high reward)
    there is a few changes i have considered as well, as in Wilson in for Lever, or Kelly in for Fyfe, or even Shaw in for Saad?
    Let me know your thoughts!

    DEF: Yeo, Lloyd, Lever, Saad, O’Shea, Doedee (Coffield, Murray)

    MID: Martin, Titch, Fyfe, JPK, Cripps, Coniglio, T.Kelly, Barry (LDU, Worpel, Holman)

    RUC: Grundy, Gawn (English)

    FWD: Heeney, Billings, Petracca, Christensen, Keeffe, Ahern (Garlett, Fritsch)

    cheers community!

    • dontblushbaby says:

      No Danger , just pay the price, JPK & Cripps might make cash but will they be in the Top 8 Mids ? Whilst the Rookies are a raffle I’m not sure about O’Shea, Worpel,Murray, – probs may not play R1 ,suggest Naughton,Banfield,Mihocek , also suggest Keeffe our for L.Ryan
      Just a few of my opinions , best wishes JMac

      • JMac says:

        my thoughts on danger are too expensive atm, has a massive ceiling when firing don't get me wrong but when you can put the money somewhere else to chase the points, can potetially put the extra money into turning JPK into J.Kelly or just having an extra premium midfielder option instead of another rookie?
        JPK maybe not top 8 but the thought was there for a POD who is capable of consistant high scores, but Cripps on the other hand should be up there this year for sure, with injury hopefully behind him and Gibbs gone? rookies i agree on changing throughout now until the start of the season as there are only a very few are locks at this point.
        thanks for opinions!

  76. hopeful says:

    hi folks,
    feedback on rhys stanley please,
    considering him up forward, due to R/F dual position status

  77. Jordan says:

    Billings or wingard?

    • dontblushbaby says:

      Billings is due to breakout,should be in top 8 fwds, no for Wingard not in the top 8 fwds by a long way , happy to prove me wrong

  78. Brayden says:

    Dahlhaus or devon smith

  79. DavidSA says:

    Can't get excited about this year

  80. Big G says:

    Is Toby Greene an alien? Will he be a top 6 fwd by season's end?

  81. Thomas says:

    SC Tragic and I’m struggling with rookies this year
    Any help guys?
    Sorry to do this

  82. Bravis Toak says:

    Hey all, is there a Jock Reynolds Group code yet?